Breaking News Pod: Husband of British hostage in Iran, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe goes on hunger strike next to Prime Minister’s office| Pod Hostage Diplomacy

Breaking News Pod: Husband of British hostage in Iran, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe goes on hunger strike next to Prime Minister’s office | Pod Hostage Diplomacy  

SPEAKERS

Daren Nair, Richard Ratcliffe

Daren Nair: 

Welcome to this breaking news episode of Pod Hostage Diplomacy. We work to free hostages and the unjustly detained around the world. Together with their families, we share their stories every week and let you know what you can do to help bring them home.
 
 Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe is an innocent British citizen from London who has been held hostage in Iran since 3rd April 2016, by the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, also known as the IRGC. Two former UK Foreign Secretaries, Jeremy Hunt, and Jack Straw have both called Nazanin a hostage. The current chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Tom Tugendhat, has called her a hostage. The most recent former UK Foreign Secretary and current Deputy Prime Minister of Britain, Dominic Raab, stated when asked whether or not Nazanin is a hostage, that he could not argue against that characterization.
 
 Nazanin is being held hostage by the Iranian IRGC to extract concessions from the United Kingdom. Nazanin's husband, Richard Ratcliffe, has been leading an amazing campaign to free his wife. I spoke to him at length on our first episode of Pod Hostage Diplomacy which was published on 1st September 2021. The episode title is, "Free Nazanin, British Hostage in Iran." If you would like to know the full story, please do give it a listen wherever you get your podcasts or on our website, podhostagediplomacy.com.
 
 On this breaking news pod, I am once again joined by Richard Ratcliffe. I've been campaigning with Richard very closely for over 5 years to free Nazanin, so I know him very well. Richard, thank you for joining us again.
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Thank you for having me, Daren.
 
 Daren Nair: 

You have started a hunger strike in front of the British Prime Minister's office. Can you tell us why you're doing this and what is it you hope to achieve?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah, you're right. This is obviously an extreme action. [(2:00)] We are starting a hunger strike, an open-ended one. I don’t know how long it'll be for. Actually, we are camped around by the Foreign Office, which is just around the corner from the Prime Minister's Office. We'll be going every day to stand in front of the Prime Minister's Office. The reason for doing it is obviously there's been a few things that have happened in Nazanin's case. Firstly, she had a second sentence that got upheld by the Iranian Court of Appeal last week. I had a phone call with the British Foreign Secretary, the new one, Liz Truss, just to say what we're going to do. In short, nothing, until she's put back in prison. Not to say they're not going to raise concerns and press the Iranian authorities, but in terms of actual consequences, it felt like there's still that kind of policy of waiting to see what happens.
 
 It's obvious what's going to happen. I mean, she's going to get put back in prison. Once she's put back in prison, I think it'll be a while until we've got a chance of getting her out again. So, that's the immediate push. If I'm honest, we've been thinking for a while that her case was drifting and we weren't quite sure what to do. 
 
 It had been something that I'd been talking about doing with other members of the family. For those who followed our story, they'll know that I did do hunger strike once before in front of the Iranian Embassy back in 2019. The point of that was really just to be noticed to say, "Listen, this suffering shouldn't be happening behind closed doors in Iran." This needs to be visible in front of people, on people's doorsteps. My sense two years on is that, again, the British government has allowed the story to drift some more. Also, this government doesn't [(4:00)] deal with problems until it becomes a crisis.
 
 So I think either we make a crisis or the Revolutionary Guard do, which would be Nazanin back in prison. It felt important to do something, to signal that the status quo is not okay. This has drifted on for so long, particularly urgent with what's developing in Iran. They're clearly signaling how frustrated they are. But in terms of the second part of your question about what are we hoping to achieve, I suppose I'm hoping that at the simple level we get noticed and that stops the plans of the IRGC to escalate it more, and prove they don't need to put her in prison if we're making it clear. 
 
 We've actually got four demands that we're making for the British Minister, Boris Johnson. The first is that he recognizes Nazanin as a hostage. As you said in your intro, lots of former foreign secretaries have. Even the previous foreign secretary said, "Well, yes, she's almost has been standing behind closed doors," and promised Nazanin he would, but he didn't explicitly and the Prime Minister never has. I do think that enables the abuse. It sort of downplays what's happening and allows inaction to be justified in a way. So, that's the first demand. 
 
 The second demand is that the UK starts to punish the perpetrators. So there are obviously people who are holding Nazanin. It's not the British Government holding her. It's the guys in Revolutionary Guard, guys in Judicial System, guys in Prison System, guys who had been marketing her mainly for some money, but also for other points.
 
 We submitted to the British government a while back now, a file of names for Magnitsky sanctions. So, [(6:00)] that's one thing they could do to punish the perpetrators, and see clearly people directly connected to Nazanin's and other’s cases. We're also been talking to British Government for three or four years about taking Iran to court because it's outrageous the way they're manipulating the consular system. The logical thing we would do is diplomatic protection, which is a fairly obscure law that the British government invoke in Nazanin's case back in 2019. The logical thing you do, is you go to court.
 
 So, those are both things that government could do we've been asking behind closed doors. We've had a lot of talking, spinning around in circles so this is just to say get on with it. The third thing, we're asking for, is that the Prime Minister keeps his promise and pays the debt. He promised very publicly to leave no stone unturned that was accompanied by lots of briefing the media that the debt was going to be paid and we understood that's what he meant. He needs to keep that promise. I've said it to his successor, his Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt, to his successor, Dominic Raab, and then to his successor, Liz Truss, the three foreign secretaries. Listen, until you pay that money, Nazanin’s not coming home, there's no way around it. We've lost five and a half years of our lives to this unpaid debt. I don't think it makes it safe for British citizens, to not pay. I think you do need to address the moral hazard and punish the perpetrators that it needs to be sorted out. 
 
 Then the final thing, part of what's made Nazanin's case complicated is the case of many of the foreign nationals held in Iran at the moment, the Americans and Brits in particular. There have been a lot of negotiations around reviving the nuclear deal or not reviving the nuclear deal and so on. Those negotiations have caused all of the foreign hostages to be leveraged for Iran in, [(8:00)] its engagement with the west. So, we've become part of those negotiations and become an asset for Iran in those negotiations and in some points almost, an asset in different ways for the other sides. There's nowhere in those negotiations, they are actually getting Iran to commit to ending hostage-taking. I think the fourth demand then is, that the British government commits to include the end of hostage-taking in the negotiations with Iran. 
 
 So those are all four things that, the British government could do. I mean, in some ways it's odd. I'm camping in front of the British government when Nazanin's held by the Iranians. But, part of the problem here is the impact of the British government. Obviously, at this point, we've got a real crisis of confidence in their strategy. It does feel like it's a strategy of just waiting and managed waiting, but, basically waiting saying the right things when asked by the media and probably meaning the right things when we have ministerial meetings, but we've seen an awful lot of people come and go and actually the things that need to happen haven't moved. I had a really depressing meeting with the Foreign Office where I laid out, listen, where I strategically and actually, they weren't willing to do anything.
 
 We had to kind of, well, if you don't change what you're doing, you're going to get the same results as you had before. It might make sense if you're just staring the other side down, but that's pretty tough from where we're sitting. So, it felt like we are the ones that need to move because we were the ones that can't afford to wait. So that's how we are where we are, right. Do I think the prime minister's going to move on any of those demands? I don’t know. That's an honest answer, I think, we sit here on day one hopeful and we'll see how the days unfold. [(10:00)]
 
 Daren Nair: 

So the last time you went on hunger strike, Nazanin also went on hunger strike. She was in Evin Prison at the time. And when she started, you started, when she stopped the hunger strike, you stopped. This time around, will she be going on a hunger strike as well?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

So, this time it's just me. Partly because this is focused on the British government. Partly because she has just been formally handed a sentence where now she's just waiting for a phone call to be summoned to prison. She's treading very carefully. Actually, I think the purpose of this one is to keep Nazanin safe. I'm not sure her going on hunger strike would keep her safe.
 
 Daren Nair: 

During the last hunger strike your sister, Rebecca, who is a doctor, was watching over you. She was giving you multivitamins, thiamine, and electrolyte replacement tablets. Is she or someone else going to do the same this time?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah, so, members of the family will come up and, keep an eye. And you're right actually, the hunger strike I did last time, was a much easier one than you would get if you were doing it in prison. I did have lots of caring people come up to support and be kind, and a couple of them were doctors including my sister. And generally, the way the body works is, that it goes slower after a couple of days. So, you stop feeling hungry. Depending on how big you are, you've often got a bit of spare padding to burn through, most likely on symmetry, but things like electrolytes can have a mental impact if you're not having those. So, that's actually the thing the doctors worry about it wasn't anything else. It was just to make sure of the mental balance. I didn't notice, that I got tired, but also it affected my [(12:00)] thinking and the other stuff, the vitamins that are there, those were afterward so that's about recovery. I'm not sure how long this one is going to be, but probably it makes a difference in health impact.
 
 We're talking about two days and to probably ending in 10 days you're probably okay. If we're talking about 20 days it's gonna be damaging. It can't be on 30 days, it's going to be damaging. I think the factor that's different this time is the temperature. So last time we did a hunger strike, it was mid-summer. By the end of it, I was wearing a lot more clothes than anyone else, but the weather was still lovely and warm. The longer the strike goes on, the colder weather is going to be. We're doing this now in late autumn. It's going to be a lot wetter. So if your body slows down, your metabolism slows down, and your ability to keep yourself warm is impaired. So, I think we'll just watch how that goes and how that feels. And probably this time around, there'll be more frequent need to ask relatives, to bring jumpers down, and so on. We'll see how it goes.
 
 Daren Nair: 

During the last hunger strike, it lasted 14 days. I know, because I was there with you every day. I would say there were almost a thousand people who came up to you, shook your hand, hugged you, and wanted to say ‘hi’. There were celebrities, there were members of the public, journalists, and members of parliament. This time, we are in the middle of a global pandemic. What precautions are you taking during this hunger strike?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah, I mean, that's fair. We had a very unusual kind of hunger strike last time and lots of people came down to say hello and so on. I would expect [(14:00)] naturally it's different for two reasons. One because of COVID, so people are more cautious in coming down, and two, because it’s going to be miserable weather. So it's one thing to come on out, sunshine, and there in the park. I think it was driving rain. I think we'll see, in terms of precaution how many people do turn up. We have not planned the big events in the same way. Last time around, every few days we would do a big gathering. I think we won't do any and we will have a little thing kicking off but we'll basically won't be doing anything during the course of it. We'll just see how it goes. I suspect there was a novelty, last time.
 
 Actually, in the end it was focused on the Iranians and everyone quickly said this is outrageous. This is a bit more complex politically because we're pointing at the British government. Saying that the British government isn't doing enough, that's not universally popular. So, I think we obviously will have to keep an eye both on how COVID develops and what the rules are. Also, actually how many people coming at one time. I mean, I don’t know if you remember, when we first started the hunger strike last time, it would be long patches where it was just me and someone else sitting there. It may be quite like that for quite a long time this time around. And part of it, I don't think we're trying to build a carnival, which we ended up with last time. The main purpose is to sit there in front of the Foreign Office next to the Prime Minister's office in Downing Street and just remind him that we are still here and this isn't solved. That doesn't need to be a big thing, it just needs to be consistent.
 
 Daren Nair: 

Yeah. I remember the last time we did this in front of the Iranian embassy, the London Metropolitan Police Diplomatic Protection group was there all the time. They would do their patrols every couple of hours and they would have a couple of officers [(16:00)] standing in front of the embassy and in a way they would be protecting us as well. This time around it's opposite the Prime Minister's office. Do you have any concerns about the police or safety?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

I think it's a different context so we'll see how it goes. Formally, the diplomatic police are responsible for guarding Parliament, the Foreign Office and Downing Street and so on. Obviously, right in front of Downing Street is very, very protected, very visibly so. The base around is much quieter, but there are guys around there checking. Whenever we've done events before in front of Downing Street or in front of it, there's not been police standing next to us in the way that it was when we were in the embassy. So, I expect it to sort of a lighter touch, but it may also be different knowing there are many angry British people, wanting to protest in front of Downing Street and be willing to go quite far. That doesn't apply in front of the Iranian Embassy, of course, there were quite a few angry Iranians. But actually, I don't think the police were ever worried about the precedent being created by our Iranian hunger strike. They may be more worried about it from the Downing Street one. 
 
 So, a lot of these things, you don’t know until you try. So, I don’t know if the reaction will be like it was last time quite supportive in the end, if the reaction will be more abrasive, it probably depends a bit on how the government reacts. So I had a conversation with the Foreign Secretary Liz Truss and said, "Listen, if you're not willing to do anything, we're going to escalate and we were going to your doorstep." No, I didn't spell it out. I'm going to do a hunger strike, but it was clear enough that we're going to escalate and we're going to use the methods that we used before. So, that between the lines [(18:00)] we gave her fair warning. She said, "Listen, I'm not sure I know what it will achieve, but it's not for me to tell you what to do, and I'm happy to support you." So having said that, I'll hold onto it and tell the police that, yeah.
 
 Daren Nair: 

The foreign secretary.
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

I told the boss, it's okay. 
 
 Daren Nair: 

The foreign secretary supported you?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So during the last hunger strike, your daughter, Gabriela was five at the time and was living with Nazanin's parents in Tehran. Now she's here with you, is she aware of what's going on?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah, it's a different context. I was reminding her the other day that she said when we did the hunger strike last time, at the end of it. We told her, mommy is going on hunger strike, daddy is going on hunger strike, that’s how mommy was going to come home. She said, "You ended the hunger strike, but mommy's not home yet." Well, are you sure you don’t want to carry on a bit more? That's very straightforward logic. You promised this, it hasn’t delivered, so why are you stopping?
 
 She knows camping. She knows I'm on a hunger strike. She is aware of us packing up sleeping bags and tents and talking through different things. She'll come down and see it in a way that she couldn't last time. She was talking about whether she wanted to join for one night. I mean, early days, I think rather than before it gets too morbid and goes on too long, but in the end, I'm sure she'll find that there are more fun things to do rather than go camping on the street.
 
 In terms of what she understands, this has gone on too long. These kinds of events are sort of unsettling for her. So she knows why we're doing it, but of course, we've done quite a few things to try and get mommy home and it hasn't worked. [(20:00)] There's definitely a part of her that just wants to be normal. I think in this campaign, we broadly we'll try and protect her from this. So she'll be in London for the first week. My sister's coming up to her kids so that she can join a couple of things even one day come down, present a petition to Downing Street, so she'll come for that. But reasonably insulated and then we'll see how long it goes as to whether she goes off and lives with granny and is not exposed. But, I do think if, if she does want sort of come down for an evening, that's her right. She's big enough, to make that choice for herself.
 
 I think looking back on it, we'll be proud that she's been part of getting her mama home. But the longer it goes on, one of these things you're not particularly aware of. The person doing the hunger strike, doesn't notice how, how much they're deteriorating, because it's a continual kind of process, but obviously, everyone else does. It's a bit like visiting a relative, that's sick in the hospital. It can be a bit shocking sometimes. So I, I think the in the coming days there's a space for her and that space disappears. After that, we'll run it through however long it takes and not to the very bitter end but until it feels that we've got through to the government. Yeah, they'll come to a point where she'll be protected on that.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So what do you want Prime Minister Boris Johnson to do? I know you've mentioned a few things earlier, call Nazanin a hostage. So to recap, what is it that you want Prime Minister Boris Johnson to do?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah. So four things we asked the Prime Minister. One is to call Nazanin a hostage. Two is to punish the perpetrators, the bad guys who are doing this. Three is, to keep his promise to settle the debt and four is, when you meet the Iranians to negotiate about ending hostage-taking. Actually Iranians, there's an Iranian delegation due to come to the UK next week, which the Prime Minister personally invited the Iranian President in a couple of years back. So it's a personal invitation, a personal delegation coming. I'm going to, if I was blunt, I said the foreign office when discovered it listen, if the Iranian President or Vice President comes to the UK and we're not solved, we're not going to sit quietly and just say, that's all OK. So I do want the forum of the Prime Minister to feel that when he meets the Iranian delegation, that part of the conversation is the shame and embarrassment about the fact they've allowed this situation to linger until this point still.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So what should members of parliament within the government as well as the opposition be doing to help? The reason I asked is that last time there were MP's from almost every party coming to visit you to stand in solidarity with you, they were wearing the free Nazanin badges in parliament. So what should the MPs be doing?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Yeah. In some ways it's probably similar, I think. Right. So, so we're due to submit and deliver the petition the first week. The first week, we'd probably just be asking people to get their friends, to sign the petition. The second week, I think that's, that's exactly the focus, we'll be asking people to, encourage their MPs, to come down, take a picture as a sign of solidarity, sign the business book, and just signal to the government that this is an issue that needs to be addressed. There are varying levels of politics with it, but actually even just coming down and saying, listen, this, has gone on too long. That gave us a great strength last time. So hopefully we'll get a number of MPs again this time, and this time around we're a lot closer to Parliament.
 
 [(24:00)] Then finally, I think if we'll see how long it goes on and we'll see what response the government, the Prime Minister gives to the demands. It'll be pushing the Prime Minister to do something. Last time around some of the MPs did try and go into the embassy, did write letters to the ambassador, did try and engage directly. It was a bit of a stonewall. It's a lot easier particularly to just reach out to the Prime Minister, whether it's knocking on the door or seeing him in parliament, but I would want it to be a really clear message that this has gone on for too long, and one can critique different parts of what the government's done, one can critique different things the government should do differently. But above that actually, there's probably a consensus that this has been a profound injustice and it just needs to end. Yeah, I just feel it's like we're in another moment where it's about to drift again. This is just to remind the government that it is making choices that could end this for us and for others.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So I've interviewed the families of hostages currently held in other countries like Russia and Venezuela. So in the United States Senate and the House of Representatives, they have passed resolutions calling on the foreign government to release this American citizen immediately. They've also passed resolutions calling on the President of the United States to bring them home. Is that something equivalent that British MPs can do to force Boris Johnson, Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, to act?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Well forcing? Probably not. Unless it's passing a law, which you would need enough members of Parliament to have a majority, there's nothing quite there, so there are things called early day motions, which is where you can signal, this is an [(26:00)] issue that needs to be solved. There's been a few of those in Nazanin's case. Typically, they've been focused on condemning or, or calling the government to do more rather condemning the Iranian government for holding Nazanin and others. But you are right. It's, it's a very strong part of US Congressional tactics and culture in a way that is less so with the UK. In the UK, we have got lots of MPs to sign letters. So when on Nazanin’s 2,000 days, which was back in late September, we got a hundred, almost 200 MPs to sign a letter calling the government to do it.
 
 It's a very strident letter saying listen the government's approach is, is a joke essentially and needs to end, needs to change. But that was a, a private letter. There wasn't a sort of a big parliamentary statement. We will see how, how this goes, that the thing Nazanin’s MP, Tulip and their office trying to do is apply for an urgent question, which is actually like an urgent debate, which is to say listen, this is bonkers, look where we are, this needs to be sorted. That's the judgment of the speaker, the person in charge of parliament to judge where or not it is a big enough issue. Different speakers have ruled cases in different ways.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So what can the journalists and news media do to help? So I was there the full two weeks last time during your hunger strike. I remember seeing journalists from Mexico, Switzerland Australia, from all around the world, basically to cover your hunger strike. What can journalists and news media do to help this time around?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Covering it is the same answer. I suspect, it probably won't go the same, we shouldn't expect it to. Last time, our story got wrapped up in [(28:00)] a battle for leadership of the conservative party which meant we were a news story in another way, as well as just a hunger strike. This time around, the context is different. The context is different in that you've got an Iranian delegation coming for the climate conference which is a different thing and important thing. But there is space on the margins for it. You've got all the big politics around the nuclear deal. Actually, almost all the countries involved in that have got people being held by Iran. So, it's probably less of a parochial story about UK politics and more about what is the government doing about Iran’s hostage diplomacy.
 
 I think, in all honesty, it has to be a lot more open about saying, this is a thing. This is a thing we're struggling with, and sharing, and working together. In the end, I think putting it on the table with the Iranians, listen, we're not going to have a functional relationship. We're not going to end sanctions if you keep taking hostages. Like how can we build trust If you just take someone new each time? You have to commit to stop doing it, which means we have to say you are doing it rather than pretend it's some kind of detention and who knows what this person is doing and that person is doing and all those euphemisms still running through it, which is why oddly the very first demand is that Boris Johnson recognizes Nazanin as a hostage. In some ways, why would that change anything? Well, it's until you get that, almost nothing else can flow. It's such an impasse in the way the government deals with stuff.
 
 Daren Nair: 

So last time you received extraordinary support from the members of the public, people brought you, people who are strangers heard you were on a hunger strike and brought you bottles of water, power banks to charge your phone, blankets, toys for Gabriela, cards. I think some of them just kept coming back every day, just to help out in any way possible. [(30:00)] These individuals who were strangers at the time are now close friends and family. What can the public do to help?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

I mean, your right. It was such a profound experience of kindness in so many ways. I don't think it'll be the same this time. For the reason we were saying before about it being colder and post COVID, we're all a bit more exhausted. It's going to be a bit more tentative, and actually what we're doing is a bit more points to the British government, which you know is a bit more political in a bit of in your face way. But, similarly, the basics, the point of the hunger strike it's to say the status quo is intolerable. That only works if people see it, that only works if, people notice and agree. It was probably that honest sympathy or solidarity, that was the most profoundly important thing back then. If it happens again, will be, in the end, what pushes the government?
 
 I mean, the government won't like having someone looking very grubby and looking thinner and thinner and more and more tired on their doorstep. Both states can live with injustice and we all see that in lots of other areas of our lives. But when lots of people are noticing and sharing the fact they've noticed in the everyday affairs, but also in terms of their MPs letting know, letting the Prime Minister know, letting whoever know. I mean, this government has a keen feeling for what's popular and unpopular which is partly why we're sitting out where we are. I think drastic actions like hunger strikes, you kind of step into the unknown, [(32:00)] because you never know really how far you can go and whatever else will happen or need to go then we'll be looking to see how the government respond.
 
 But yeah, when you step into the unknown, you really want to be noticed and I've seen them happen in prison where no one did notice and that's a really disparaging thing. So I remember why I did it last time, was the fear that actually Nazanin 's done a couple already. It's going to become an old story. It won't, in fact, that will be true for us. The second time around, there'll be less novelty from a media perspective, we'll get less covered. But I think the support that people have given our case across the years in different ways is, it's been such a, a core part of what's kept us safe and kept us going. In a sense, I'm hoping that'll happen again. Not in the same way, not to the same extent, but in a democracy, that's the pressure that keeps the government honest. So, yeah, so we'll hopefully be able to bring that pressure on the government.
 
 Daren Nair: 

Is there anything else you'd like to mention?
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

No, I, I think at this stage it's, please everyone keeps their fingers crossed. Let's hope we have a dry couple of weeks, an unseasonably warm bit of weather., I do think the government needs to change its ways. I do think it's much bigger than us. How the government deals with state hostage taking, hostage taking broadly it’s not good. It's not fit for purpose.[(34:0)] It is just a policy of waiting and sheltering ministers a bit from that, sheltering the officials a bit from that, sheltering the public a bit from that. We've got to a point where I kind of wants to cut through the b*** s***, this could easily drift on for another couple of years. I think for me, we all got linked to the nuclear deal. That nuclear deal might happen next year but might not happen until after next year. In that frustration, Nazanin is going to be thrown in prison, we're probably looking at two more years minimum. That's why it makes sense to act the way we do now, even if all seems a bit crazy. I do think when all this is over, the government either has to become honest and just, we're not, we're not protecting, we don't care, or it has to really look at how it is discharging it's most important duty to keep its citizens safe because it was frankly vague. 
 
 Daren Nair: 

Richard. I've said this many times before, and I'll say it again. We'll be right here by your side until Nazanin's back home. I hope this hunger strike makes a big difference. Thank you for joining us.
 
 Richard Ratcliffe: 

Thank you.
 
 Daren Nair: 

To our listeners, if you want to learn more about Nazanin's case, then please listen to our first ever episode titled, "Free Nazanin, British hostage in Iran", which was published on the first of September 2021. Thank you for listening and take care.
 
 [END]