SITREP Pod 4: Free Robert Pether, Australian held in Iraq | Pod Hostage Diplomacy

SITREP Pod 4: Free Robert Pether, Australian held in Iraq

SPEAKERS

Desree Pether, Daren Nair

Daren Nair  00:05

Welcome to Pod Hostage Diplomacy. We work to free hostages and the unjustly detained around the world. Together with their families, we share their stories and let you know how you can help bring them home. 

Elizabeth Whelan  00:18

Now when it comes to using the family to get... for Russia to get what they want, if that's the case, they've picked the wrong family, because I'm not going to carry water for the Russian authorities. 

Daren Nair  00:28

These are some of the most courageous and resilient people among us. 

Mariam Claren  00:32

I never thought that my mother, Nahid Taghavi, will ever have a link to negotiations in Vienna about the JCPOA. That's so crazy.

Daren Nair  00:43

People who have never given up hope. 

Paula Reed  00:46

Trevor told his girlfriend to tell me to... to be strong. So, I'm trying to be strong for Trevor.

Joey Reed  00:50

You know, if Trevor can cope with what he's dealing with...

Paula Reed  00:53

Exactly. 

Joey Reed  00:53

We can sure cope with the stress.

Daren Nair  00:55

People who will never stop working to reunite their families. 

Joey Reed  01:00

We'd like to meet with the President. We believe that, you know, he has... he's surrounded by lots of experienced and educated advisors. But I don't believe that any of them have ever had a child taken hostage by a foreign country, especially not a superpower like Russia. 

Daren Nair  01:15

And we will be right there by their side until their loved one comes back home. 

Richard Ratcliffe  01:20

Because if enough people care, then the right people will care enough. 

Daren Nair  01:24

I'm Daren Nair, and I've been campaigning with many of these families for years. When I first started campaigning with these families, I noticed they struggle to get the media attention they needed. So, I decided to create this podcast, which is a safe space for the families to speak as long as they need to about their loved ones, and what needs to be done to bring them home. 

Mariam Claren  01:45

Nobody can prepare you for what our family's going through. Even if someone had told me one year before, "in one year, this is going to happen. Prepare yourself." It's impossible. 

Daren Nair  01:59

Thank you for listening, and welcome to Pod Hostage Diplomacy. Australian citizen and Irish resident, Robert Pether, has been wrongfully imprisoned in Iraq for over two years now. Robert is an engineer, a husband and a father. Robert and his colleague, Khaled Radwan, were both detained in Baghdad on 7 April 2021, after they went to Iraq to resolve a business dispute between the Iraqi government and their Dubai-based employer, CME Consulting. CME Consulting, which is an engineering firm, was working on the new headquarters for the Central Bank of Iraq. The project was hit by delays and increased costs due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and a dispute arose whereby the Iraqi Government demanded the return of 12 million US dollars paid to CME Consulting. As a result of this dispute between the Iraqi government and CME Consulting, both Robert Pether and Khaled Radwan, who worked for the company, were detained and put in prison. The United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention has stated that their detention is arbitrary, meaning they are wrongfully imprisoned, and has called for their immediate release. We have interviewed Robert's wife, Desree, and son, Flynn, four times on this podcast. They live in Ireland and have been tirelessly campaigning to free Robert and reunite their family. We tell all the families we interview that we'll be campaigning right by their side, and we mean it. We will keep you up to date on their case using sitrep pods like this one, or breaking news pods. There have been significant updates in Robert's case and, today, we get to hear from Robert's wife, Desree Pether, once again. Desree, I'm so sorry that you, Rob, and your children, Flynn, Oscar and Nala, are still going through this nightmare. Thank you for taking the time to speak to us again. Now, for our listeners who aren't aware of your case, or need a refresher, can you please give them an overview of what happened? 

Desree Pether  04:18

Hi, Daren. Once again, thank you so much for your support. Just to recap, my husband, Robert Pether, is an engineer. He was one of the lead engineers on the construction project in Iraq for the new Central Bank of Iraq headquarters. It was the last design done by Zaha Hadid, the architect, before she died, and Robert has been working on it for about four years, and there was a contract dispute between his employer, CME Consulting in Dubai, and the Central Bank of Iraq, and invoices hadn't been paid for about seven months. And Robert's employer had said that they were going to withdraw their staff from the project. And, yeah, so Central Bank called Robert and his colleague, Khaled, back for a meeting. And so, they arrived on the 1st of April 2021 and worked until the 7th, when they went for a meeting, supposedly with the Governor of the Central Bank, who they'd met with many times. But after meeting all morning with Central Bank engineers, they were arrested at the time that they were supposed to meet with the Governor. And then they disappeared for several days. We didn't know where they were. And then they sat for five and a half months with no charges, before going to court. And then they were sentenced to five years and 12.2 million US dollars against them personally, not against their employer. It was a contract dispute, but it was used as an opportunity by their accuser at the Central Bank of Iraq, to... to start a vindictive vendetta against one of his former colleagues. So, they were literally, Robert and his colleague, Khaled, were pawns in a game of chess, and they've never done anything wrong. They've always maintained their innocence.

Daren Nair  06:20

Desree, the last time our listeners heard from you was November last year. You were thinking of going on a hunger strike in front of the Iraqi Embassy in London. Many things have happened since then. Can you please tell us more?

Desree Pether  06:35

Yeah, last time we spoke, I was thinking... I was very seriously looking into going on a hunger strike outside the Embassy in London. And I planned it. I... I had battery operated vests to keep me warm. I had people to support me and bring me thermoses of tea and all sorts of things. And I had notified the Iraq Embassy that I was going to do that in the near future. But then Robert put his foot down and said that he didn't want me to do that, because it was detrimental to my health. And if I did do it, he would do it, too. And absolutely, he is not in a position to do that. He's constantly sick. He's gone from being never sick a day in his life to dogged with infections and illness. He's constantly on antibiotics for one thing or another, and he's lost a lot of weight. So absolutely, he can't do that. And so, I couldn't do it. And yeah, so, I had to put that idea on hold for the time being. And so, since then, we've had Christmas, which was really, really, really hard for us, harder than the first Christmas, because we honestly thought he'd be out. And as Christmas got closer and closer, and I had been to London and spoken with the Iraq Embassy in London, and we'd done a protest out the front where Nala had made herself a poster saying, "All I want for Christmas is my Daddy." And so, yeah, Christmas was horrendously difficult. And then we've just had... we had the two-year anniversary on the 7th of April, which was another really difficult milestone and was very hard on Rob and Khaled. And then... then also, Rob's had his birthday, and that was on the 22nd of April. And again, we thought that they would be out by then. So, you know, it's... it's just ongoing and more plot twists and turns. And at this moment, the $50 million civil case against them is on hold. So, we're not sure exactly what that means. We've not received anything in writing since we got that notification. And we were also notified that their fourth application for a retrial has been approved. But again, that was on the 17th of April. And then we didn't get anything in writing or anything concrete all of that week. And then of course, there was Eid. And then all of last week, we didn't receive anything. They didn't actually go back to work until Tuesday. So, we're eagerly awaiting something any day with regards to that and, hopefully, they can have a fair, impartial retrial, where they can finally show all of the evidence that they've been trying to show for two years that shows that they're completely 100% innocent. Robert's coping off and on, and it's really hard on both of them at the moment. One's up; one's down. And it's a really difficult time, especially with all of the new information that's come to light that has been presented, which is 52 emails back and forward between the subcontractor, Meinhardt, who was their subcontractor on the project. And the main component that, you know, was... there was a statement, which was the main reason that they were trapped, arrested and imprisoned in the first place, was based on an unsubstantiated statement made by an employee of Meinhardt. And one of the things that he said was that after XYZ date, he never heard from CME Consulting again, and that they didn't know that the project had commenced, and CME Consulting had cheated them out of their fees, which is what the 12.2 million is supposed to be. But there's 52 emails over the entire duration of the project. And 35 of those are after the date that he says that he never heard from them again. So, they have been presented, and it's new evidence, which has come to light. And I had kind of hoped that Iraq would jump on that and immediately do the right thing and release them immediately and unconditionally, given that such a gross error had been made, and that these two men should never have even been arrested in the first place. But we're still waiting, and they're still in prison.

Daren Nair  11:45

So, new evidence has come to light in the form of company emails that appear to show that a witness either intentionally or accidentally provided an inaccurate statement that was then used to wrongfully imprison Robert Pether and his colleague, Khaled Radwan. Now, Desree, to make matters worse, Robert has been suffering from many health issues in prison. Has he been getting the medical care he needs?

Desree Pether  12:14

He does get... Robert does get the medical care that he needs. But not for his moles, especially the new mole that developed on his ear since his arrest, and also the explosion of new moles on his back. As I've mentioned before, he has a skin condition. So, he has a lot of moles, and he's had a melanoma before on his ear, and he has a new mole just up from that site, where he had the melanoma before. So, we're sincerely hoping that that's not a melanoma, and that, you know, he's not a ticking time bomb in that regard. You know, there was a horrendous, horrendous incident last year where a 15-centimetre chunk was cut out of the bottom of his spine, which was supposed to be a biopsy, and it was actually on a safe mole that many dermatologists had checked over the years and deemed unnecessary to remove. And so naturally, the biopsy came back clear. And that was the end of it. But, yeah, we... we just hope that this isn't, but definitely he's not going back for another biopsy. Yeah, because he might lose his ear with that. So, we're... we're sincerely... and then also with his previous melanoma, he had a biopsy done and it came back dysplastic, and then he went for surgery. Nine days later, and the results from the surgery, nine days later, it had changed from dysplastic to stage one melanoma. So, he's very worried about, you know, having anything cut there, where he might not get the follow-up, and then he's literally, you know, on borrowed time.

Daren Nair  14:05

Desree, you and your children have been going through this trauma as well for the last two years. How have you been coping?

Desree Pether  14:12

Um, the children and I... you know, we're all struggling. It's... it's really hard on the boys at the moment, because both of them are doing end of year exams. And Oscar's doing his Leaving Cert here in Ireland, which is his last exams for high school, and he has his graduation coming up on the 28th of May. We... we hope so much that Robert's out for that, because Robert missed Flynn's 18th and Flynn's graduation and, you know, it's... there's been so much time stolen from us, and it's, you know, very hard on the boys at the moment, and, you know, they've coped as best they can, and they've had to grow up so fast. And Nala is, you know, she's ten, now. She was eight when Robert was taken. And, you know, she's a young lady. Now she's not a little girl anymore. And yeah, but she remains oblivious to probably 45% of what's going on, because she's a kid, and she needs to be a kid. And myself, I'm just, you know, I'm exhausted. I've just been to Australia, where I went and saw the Iraq Embassy in Canberra, and spoke to the Australian Government and did quite a bit of press. And, you know, I have MS. So, it's really, really difficult for me to travel, and I have a number of health issues. Two years of extreme stress have taken a huge toll on my body. And so, yeah, I'm just struggling and trying to keep my head afloat and keep the fight going.

Daren Nair  15:56

What should the Iraqi Government do?

Desree Pether  15:59

The Iraq government need to do the right thing immediately and unconditionally, and that's let them go. Now that this multitude of new evidence has come to light, the setup is so blatantly obvious. And it's so obvious that these two innocent men were used as pawns in a game and, sorry, a game of chess, and they need to be released immediately, you know, without any other process or procedure. It's... it's amazing that they've finally been granted another retrial, but in all honesty, it shouldn't even go to that. It... it should be an immediate release. They have so much information now, and a huge, grave mistake was made. And those who lied should be held accountable. You know, the... the lies that ended up with two innocent men in prison for over two years, needs to stop immediately, and the right thing needs to be done, and not other manoeuvres and manipulations to try and find other ways to justify them being there. It needs to be honest, decent action, and that is to release them.

Daren Nair  17:16

Do you feel that Rob's case is a priority for the Australian Government? What should the Australian Government do?

Desree Pether  17:24

The Australian Government assures me that Robert's a top priority. But in situations like this, there is absolutely always more that can be done. I asked them if they could please utilise their relationships with other partners, as in other countries that they have a good relationship with, to see if they can help in any way. I think I've said before as well, that things need to change with regards to human rights and arbitrary detention globally. And it's becoming a bit of a pattern. I see more and more people on your page. And you see more people every week in the news that have been taken. There's another man here in Ireland as well. And it has to stop. There needs to be decisive action that is combined in all countries, where a country has an international citizen, and there are human rights abuses, especially when the UN Arbitrary Detention Working Group has issued a report, such as in Robert and Khaled's case, which was March last year. Countries like Iraq, that have signed on to agreements regarding international law and human rights, need to be held accountable when violations occur. And Robert and Khaled's report from the UN Arbitrary Detention Working Group was very extensive. And there was violations in category one, two and three. And it was a very big report. So, there was a lot of violations. And I have asked the Australian Government on multiple occasions to please work with their partners. And... and, you know, and also there's been a lot of wheat deals and different deals, grains and things like that that have happened. And I think that, you know, the relationship is there, and it should be utilised to put pressure on the Iraq government to do the right thing and to let Robert go. The Egyptian government have been amazing as far as supporting Robert as well, as their own citizen Khalid. In the beginning, they were instrumental in getting Robert out of the interrogation facility, where he was for 12 days with Khaled and to where they are now. Robert's... when he left that first facility was delirious and blacking out, and severely dehydrated and starved, and he had a raging kidney and bladder infection. He had lost 15 kilos in 12 days. And they got moved on Day 12. And the Australian Embassy didn't actually go and see Robert until Day 26. So, if the Egyptians had only looked after Khaled, then Robert probably wouldn't have survived that first facility. So, we're forever grateful to them for what they've done to help. And they've supported Robert as well, many times, over the past two years. The Egyptian government are working closely with the Australian Government, and... and both governments just need to utilise their relationships and their agreements, and really just highlight that this is not acceptable, and combine their efforts and combine their relationships with other countries, because this has to... has to stop. It's been two years. It's horrendous. Now we have this evidence that shows that they're completely innocent, along with the evidence that we've been trying to present for two years, which shows that they're completely innocent. And I think it needs to be a combined effort by multiple countries. Iraq wants to become this major port in the Middle East for trade. And they want to have all these buildings done, and they want specialised expertise from overseas. And this bank for the Central Bank of Iraq, the new headquarters, was one of the first significant construction projects in Iraq and supposed to be a beacon of hope for the future. And yet, this is what's happened to the two key engineers that were working on the project. The FIDIC contract, which was the standard construction contract, that was duly signed between Central Bank of Iraq and Robert and Khaled's employer, CME Consulting, was just flagrantly ignored. And... and, you know, this is just not the way forward when they've got so much rebuilding to do.

Daren Nair  20:52

Is there anything the Egyptian government can do, given that Rob's colleague is Egyptian? Now, for our listeners who aren't aware, FIDIC is the International Federation of Consulting Engineers. In the FIDIC contract that Desree just mentioned, one of the fundamental principles is that employees, like Rob and Khaled, hold no personal liability. This is a dispute between the Central Bank of Iraq and CME Consulting. Robert and Khaled, who are CME's employees, should not be in prison, and should not have to pay a 12 million US dollar fine themselves, which for most people, including Robert and Khaled, is a life sentence, as they simply don't have that amount of money. Now, Desree, what should the international community do to help?

Desree Pether  23:10

The international community... I... I just need so much more support. The momentum... I have, you know, raised Robert in the media again in the last week, and more to come this week. And I really just need Free Robert Pether hashtag, sorry, hashtag #FreeRobertPether, spread everywhere, and also, the articles that I've put up on Twitter and Instagram, and Facebook. If you just search "Robert Pether," it'll come up. And it just needs to be spread everywhere. If anyone knows anyone famous that can just step up and say, "hey, guys, what's happening with Robert Pether?" that would be absolutely awesome. We just need his name out there everywhere. We just need pressure. The right thing needs to be done. That's all, you know, we've ever wanted. And I just need as much pressure and as much support. It's... you know, quite often people will say, "can you put me in touch with your team that's doing all of the Twitter and the Instagram and the social media?" And it's just me. Robert and I are only children. We don't have a big family. And it's just me. And so, if I can have any help from anyone that would be absolutely amazing. And we would really appreciate it.

Daren Nair  24:32

Desree, what can journalists and news outlets do to help?

Desree Pether  24:39

Likewise with journalists and the media, I need more attention in other countries apart from Australia. I need... I need everyone talking about Robert Pether. I've reached out to Amnesty International a number of times in the UK, and I was told because he's Australian that they wouldn't get involved. Amnesty International Australia aren't involved. I've been asking them for two years, and, you know, constantly just told, you know, a new person each time that they're looking into it. And they've had the UN report since its publishing in March 2022. But they just don't want to talk about an Australian citizen called Robert Pether. And so the media, I just need other countries to write about Robert, to talk about Robert, to talk about his story, and also about the momentum building with regards to arbitrary detention and people being detained in other countries. And, yeah, I think we'll call it the Iraq Protocol down the track, and completely change the way that this is done and change the way the UN report is received, and the actions that can be taken as a result of that, because this is just not acceptable, and it can't continue, and it can't increase.

Daren Nair  26:01

I used to be a director on the board of Amnesty International UK, and I don't understand why Amnesty has not taken up Robert's case. It's disappointing, and Amnesty really needs to do better. I know if they take on Rob's case, they can really make a big difference. Now, Desree, how can people keep up to date with the Free Robert Pether campaign?

Desree Pether  26:22

You can keep up to date with... with... with the campaign, basically, by googling "Robert Pether Iraq." You'll see all the articles, and I'm on Twitter as @dessy_mac, and / or you just look up Free Robert Pether, and you'll find it, the same with Instagram. And... and, yeah, please just, if you can share it whenever you can, that would be awesome. And we just really, really need as much support and to get the word out, and put as much pressure on the people that can do something to actually step up and do the right thing.

Daren Nair  26:58

Desree, we're almost at the end of our interview. Is there anything else you'd like to mention?

Desree Pether  27:03

I'd just like to mention that, you know, it just needs to change. And I need, you know, these people to do the right thing. Robert went over to Iraq. He could have had any project that he wanted to; he's very good at what he does. He's very clever and very professional, and his speciality is hospitals and labs and other specialised buildings, museums that, you know, need special airflow and things like that. And he wanted to make a difference. And he wanted to leave a legacy. And he had worked with Iraqis when he was working in Abu Dhabi, and Dubai and Bahrain. And he really respected the people and wanted to give something back and make a difference. And so, that's why he took this project. And it was his foot in the door, and a way to prove himself and prove his work. And in the four and a half years that he was working on this project, he has had nothing but praise. There was never once any letter complaining about their work. And so with, at the time of their arrest, it was eight months approximately left on the project. And... and Robert had started talking to authorities about three hospital construction projects in Iraq, in Baghdad, a major hospital. He upgraded their plans, so they were up to international code, for free, as a gesture of goodwill. And he was also talking to authorities about mega greenhouses for food security for Iraq. So, it's... it's just such a shame that a few truly evil people have done this for their own gain and... and completely ruined his dreams of... of giving something back to a community that desperately needs help to rebuild, and that the Iraqi people are going to miss out on his expertise and his generosity. So, it's a big shame. And you know... you know, like we say all the time, this is not Iraq, and it's not the Iraqi people. It is a few horrible people that have done this.

Daren Nair  29:23

Desree, I've been campaigning to free hostages and the unjustly detained for eight years now. I've seen how big a toll this trauma takes on families. I know this is a marathon, not a sprint, and we will be right here by your side, campaigning until Robert is back home. Thank you for taking the time to speak to us today.

Desree Pether  29:44

Thank you so much, Daren, once again for your support. We really, really do appreciate it.

Daren Nair  29:53

Thank you for listening to Pod Hostage Diplomacy. Thank you for giving your time and for showing these families that they're not alone, that there are good, caring people out there, willing to stand by their side and help in any way possible. 

Richard Ratcliffe  30:08

Because if enough people care, then the right people will care enough. This is a basic rule of thumb that is true for all campaigning. 

Daren Nair  30:16

If you haven't already, please subscribe to our fortnightly newsletter called The Hostage Briefing. It's the best way to keep up to date with the cases we're working on, as well as new episodes. You can subscribe to this newsletter using the link in the description of this podcast episode that you're currently listening to. Thanks again and take care.